Is “tell advice” not idiomatic over “give advice”?
I was told by some users @Shoe and @Greybeard that “tell [...] advice” is not a collocation used by native speakers at all, “give advice” is the only expression used.
So I investigated to see whether this was true and I found some results. I googled “tell me some advice” which gave results of about 521,000 with some sources being less legitimate and with some occurrences even occurring in Google books:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22tell+you+some+advice%22&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB860GB860&oq=%22tell+you+some+advice%22&aqs=chrome..69i57.5502j0j4&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
It even appears in the UK “The Times” Newspaper (2006)
To me “to give someone advice” is the most common variant but it sounds phrasally and unidiomatic. However, to be politically correct I think “tell some advice” is more appropriate as personally in my grammar you cannot “give X advice”, you can only give physical objects but you can tell or speak advice/words. This is my reasoning for being able to use “Tell advice”. I don’t however suggest that it’s more popular than “give advice” which is obviously the most used, however I wouldn’t say that native speakers do not talk like this or that it is ungrammatical.
Note it’s not about whether something is grammatically or politically correct, it seems, as long as the phrase’s use is attested for by the community then it can “seem” valid, almost just as grammatical and accepted as their Standard counterpart. This is what is usually seen with phrasal verbs.
Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA):
People are telling me they can't find the tell + advice collocation on COCA, that's because you do not know how to use it! Follow the above screenshot, then click "0" on the left before clicking search.
https://www.english-corpora.org/coca/
Example 1
Put too much stock in others' opinions, though, and you can feel pulled in all directions. If you lack the confidence or experience to tell good advice from bad, you might lose sight of your own story, cobbling ideas from mismatched bits of cloth. [...]
Example 2
A young person, bemused among gaudy allurements of life's candy store, knows not how to discriminate, knows not how to tell good advice from bad, nor whom to emulate, nor whom to shun. To survive to maturity, the young hero must learn to evaluate skillfully and choose ethically
Example 3
Q: Which social issues? # A: Some of the social issues. # . # Q: Choice, the issue of abortions, would that be one of the social issues? # A: That's one. # . # Q: That's a good start. Do you recall any others off the top of your head? # A: There probably are more. (Laughter) # . # Q: If you had to give your own kids one piece of advice, what would it be? # A: One piece of advice I'd tell my kids is stay committed to the important things. And they're not jobs or they're not different positions, but they're the basic elements of living a good life and that is commitment to your faith and your family and to your belief structure
My questions are this:
(1) Do you consider the collocation “tell advice” as not used by native speakers, therefore not “idiomatic”, despite what the Google search results and COCA suggest?
(2) Is “tell advice” ungrammatical in anyway over “give advice”?
People have questioned the validty of "tell advice" from the above sources and so I found several usages of it in the Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA). Is this evidence more valid to attest the use of "the advice"? If so, can my question now be taken seriously?
Also, I wouldn't consider n-grams a reliable source for 'idiomatic' over corpuses...
Furthermore as stated in the first line of my question, I didn't mention anything about fixed collocations!
Phase 1: Close comparison of phrases of the form 'X [to] you some advice'
As a narrow inquiry into the world of verb + pronoun + "some advice," I ran a Google Books search across the period 1800–2006 for the following phrases: "you some advice" (yellow line), give you some advice (blue line), "offer you some advice" (red line), "leave you some advice" (green line), "share with you some advice" (no line because too few matches to track), "lend you some advice" (same), "provide you some advice (same), "send you some advice" (same), "impart to you some advice" (same), and "tell you some advice" (same). Here is the resulting Ngram chart:
Goodle Ngrams show the year-by-year frequency of matches in the Google Books database of published works for each search term submitted.
As you can see, the lines for the generic "you some advice"—which obviously includes instances of any verb (or other word) plus the phrase "[word] you some advice"—is only slightly more frequent year by year than the much more specific phrase "give you some advice"; this result is even more striking when you consider that it doesn't include matches for various other forms of "give": "gave you some advice," "gives you some advice," and "given you some advice," and "giving you some advice."
Once you take "give you some advice" out of the mix, there aren't terribly many instances of "you some advice" left unaccounted for. Of those, "offer you some advice" provides a substantial number and "leave you some advice" a much smaller (but still trackable) number.
Left out of the Ngram because of too few matches are the phrases starting with "provide," "send" "share with," and "tell." And yet each of these phrases does draw some matches in the Google Books database. This is how the frequency of each of the also-ran stacks up" in terms of confirmed nonduplicate matches:
"share with you some advice": sixteen matches (1976, 1980, 1981, 1983, 1993, 1995, 1995 again, 1997, 1997 again, 1998, 1999, 1999 again, 2000, 2005, 2012, and 2019)
"lend you some advice": nine matches (1974, 1985, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2018, and 2020)
"provide you some advice": six matches (1986, 1999, 2002, 2005, 2009, and 2013)
"send you some advice": four matches (1815, 1862/1951, 1972, and 2001)
"impart to you some advice": matches 1846, 1917, 1992, and 2017)
"tell you some advice": two matches (2009 and 2014)
So at least in the case of "tell you some advice," the phrase with "tell" is not only so rare in the Google Books database that it doesn't generate a line graph (unlike four relatively frequent alternatives), but it finishes last in the cohort of six relatively uncommon alternatives, with only two matches.
Phase 2: Close comparison of phrases of the form 'X some advice'
I next took the same verb options as in the previous set of terms but attached each one directly to "some advice." That is, I asked for matches across the period 1800–2006 for the following phrases: "give some advice" (blue line), "offer some advice" (red line), "share some advice" (green line), "provide some advice" (yellow line), "send some advice" (teal line), "impart some advice (purple line), "leave some advice" (no line because too few matches to track), "lend some advice" (same), and "tell some advice" (same). Here is the resulting Ngram chart:
The most striking thing about this chart is rise in frequency of "offer some advice" since about 1970: since the early 1980s it has been more common in Google Books publications than "give some advice." Also noteworthy is the fact that six of the nine phrases I tested were frequent enough to generate line plots on this Ngram chart. Here are the confirmed nonduplicate matches for the three that were not sufficiently frequently used:
"lend some advice": seventeen matches (1900, 1974, 1980, 1980 again, 1986, 1989, 1992, 1992 again, 1994, 1995, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2003 again, 2004, 2012, and 2015)
"leave some advice": nine matches (1845, 1851, 1935, 1943, 1990, 1995, 1995 again, 2001, and 2013)
"tell some advice": one match (2019)
In this cohort of nine phrases of the form "[verb] some advice," the phrase "tell some advice" finishes dead last, with just one match.
Phase 3: Close comparison of phrases of the form 'X advice'
Finally I reduced the search terms to verb + "advice," and ran the same set of Google Books searches. This time around, the Ngram came out as follows:
In this case, eight of the nine search terms registered enough matches to enable Ngram to plot individual lines for them—although the frequency of "give advice" was so much greater than the most of the rest that only "offer advice" and "provide advice" rise appreciably above the baseline of the chart. The one phrase that didn't generate enough matches to produce a line plot was "tell advice." Here are the confirmed nonduplicate matches for that phrase:
- "tell advice": four matches (1758/1907, 1972, 2005, 2007)
Conclusions
There are a great many ways to express the idea of conveying advice to a person—and a number of verbs can stand in for "give" or "offer," the two verbs most commonly used to complement the noun "advice." One possibility—at least for some published authors—is "tell [someone] [some] advice." But this is by no means a common choice, and indeed, in the three Google Books searches that I ran for phrases describing the conveyance of advice, "tell" was the least common of the nine verbs I searched for each time.
Google ngrams found zero uses of "tell you some advice" and lots of uses of "give you some advice":
While I wouldn't normally consider this definitive, in this case I think it can stand.
The OXFORD Collocation Dictionary suggests the following idiomatic usages.
Advice:
(VERB + ADVICE) give (sb), offer (sb), pass on, provide (sb with) I hope I can pass on some useful advice.
So apparently tell advice, though understandable, is a non-idiomatic construction.
According to English Collocations, give advice, offer advice and provide advice are the correct collocations.