What is the best time for ascension?
Is there any kind of formula which determines the best time for an ascension?
Something like: "If you need more than 10 Minutes farming to get enough money for upgrades to kill the next boss!"?
I have the feeling that I always wait to long for an ascension. I'm currently in a kind of battle with two workmates and both of them are nearly 100 level in front of me. With nearly the same playing time (mentioned at steam).
I know that this question may be opinion based, due to this fact I would like to mention my own play type. I normally play it on idle. Which means I have ancients which increase my on idle damage (currently +100%) and my on idle gold even too (+100%). Which means it makes no sense for me to click in order that I would gain more and faster gold if I just watch the game and spend the money.
Solution 1:
I have a feeling any answer here would be highly subjective; due to the differing styles of play (active/idle/hybrid); as well as the myriad of possible variables involved (Ancients, Gilds, Relics). I've seen a couple calculators; but they concern with what ancients I should upgrade & what order to level my heroes; but nothing with a clear-cut "Ascend Now!" answer.
I'm using an idle play style; and typically here's how I've been doing it:
- Progress until I can't beat a boss without using skills
- Use skills to beat aforementioned boss
- Progress another 5 levels
- If the boss is primal (meaning I'll get hero souls); wait for skills to recharge and go back to step 2. If the boss is not primal; ascend.
Of course; there may be reasons to deviate from this path (say i'm on level 785; and getting past 800 will net me guaranteed HS; as well as a 5% DPS bonus from an achievement. In this case I'll probably wait it out).
Anecdotally; from my experience; if you're early game (seemingly maxing out around level 300-400 or before); it probably makes sense to ascend early and often (minimum 15 HS per run). If you're mid to late game; that's when you'll start making deeper runs.
Edit So if you're getting around 15 hero souls; I think your target is somewhere around level 140 or so; and 7 or 8 of those should be coming from hero levels. (when you're upgrading; make sure you try and maximize your levels rather than dumping cash; as you get an additional HS for every 2000 levels.)
Personally; I've been spending rubies on the 3 additional gilds. Cash doesn't seem worth it; and the quick ascension is rather pricy as once you start progressing you'll be ascending every 30-60 minutes. There's a new option for a 2x permanent damage boost (not sure how good this is); and another for 3 relics (i think is rather useless; as you are forced to "recycle" them after you ascend; only keeping 4 equipped)
You said you have Libertas & Siyalatas; which are critical for an idle style. I think your next purchases should be Dora / Mimzee / Mammon (as those will give a significant boost to your gold production. After you get those 3; look for Atman / Solomon. Those will really boost your HS production
Solution 2:
(a bit late, but what the heck.)
For your first run, (just to make this a bit more generally useful) you'll probably spend a couple of days before ascending. The suggested target is about 10 Hero Souls, and around level 140. Most of those HS will come from hero levels, unless you get unusually lucky with Primal bosses. Check out an idle or active build guide to see suggestions on what to buy with those HS.
After that, most of the calculators that give a suggested level to ascend seem to recommend ascending when it takes you more than a couple of seconds per kill. This obviously is different for everyone, depending on their upgrades etc, but is a pretty good guideline to follow for "efficient" leveling.
Apply HS to level ancients as recommended by your preferred calculator. Google for "clicker heroes simple idle guide" for a basic rundown on how to get started until you're passing the 500's or so with ease. There's probably a similar document for active builds, too.
Once you've got your basic ancients chosen, it mostly becomes a bit "rinse and repeat". I break the short runs up with occasional deep runs, usually adding +50 or +100 to my highest zone... which so far gives me enough HS to buy a new ancient most of the time, and adds a bunch to the prize from Quick Ascension.
Speaking of QA.. for rubies...
The "double damage forever" buy is guaranteed worth it. 50 rubies isn't that much for a permanent boost (like an ancient, it lasts through your ascensions).
in general, the preferred/recommended buy is the Quick Ascension for 50 rubies.
Gilds are free from progression, and according to someone's math, you have to buy tons of them to make any real difference come late-game.
Gold is a waste since you just earn it all the time, and can't take it with you when you ascend. (it -can- help in early game, to buy your way past a wall, but usually it's better to just ascend.)
You get a random relic with every ascension, if you get high enough (it can spawn by default on any non-boss level over 99, up to 2/3 your highest ever zone). Further, since relics are almost entirely luck based, even spending thousands of rubies on them doesn't really guarantee anything.
Quick Ascension gives you a number of hero souls based on the highest zone you've ever completed. More HS makes you more powerful. This lets you advance to higher levels. This gives you more HS on each Quick Ascension. Essentially it's a profit-engine.
Solution 3:
You need to consider how long it took to get to this level (say 2 hours?) vs how long it'll take to get though enough primal bosses to give extra hero souls to match the number you can get by ascending now. Usually there's a point where you notice you are waiting 10 or 15 minutes just to buy a batch of 25 heroes (the amount with the multiplier, late game buy no less than that). So if you could restart and run in the same or less time to get the same number of souls, well, you should.
Relics throws in a small wrench in that if you haven't found the one from this world yet, it means it's later and thus more valuable, maybe you can go find it before ascending? It depends on your tolerances.
My own progression went something like:
- Run to Lvl 150. This was a mistake, everything past 120 was painful.
- Run to Lvl 140. Did not spend any of those hero souls. Felt easier.
- Run to Lvl 140 again, now I can buy an ancient. (got Vaagur) I will win!
- Run to Lvl 180. Gosh I um. That wasn't so much different. New goal, get the Dred Knight next time.
- Run to Lvl 200... Oh a dps bonus for ever? Nice... and to 1800. How? See below.
For that 5th run, I already had like 150 rubies right... and I read that the higher your highest progression lvl the better the return on spending it on hero souls, so I got to 200, then I got a little stuck around say 250... and I saw I could get "lots" of souls with a buy and not actually reset, so I did. And instantly I'm accelerated right? I'm going past 500 here. I notice I can get like 5x the souls to keep going, so I do buy more. Then I start buying ancients. Sadly Siylas nor Libertas came up, Dogcog, Solomon, Kleptos. I started using the calculator and figured out some good levels to get them to, but now I'd slowed myself down. But was getting to about 1000 (note this run is 2 weeks long). So I buy another batch of souls, it provides just fewer than ascending would have. And I round out my collection with Siylas and get to about 1600 when I aim for 1800 for the achievement, seems so doable, but after 1710 I'm so darn slow I use the last of my rubies (the ones I'd acquired in this run) to buy more souls, burst past 1800 think about 2000, notice there's just no way, and ascend.
All subsequent runs so far have been beyond the recommended 1015, say 1300 or so, because I'm just letting it go in the background and from 1015 to 1300 the hero souls difference is about double the souls, looking at 52k souls vs 22k. Granted time wise, if I was okay with clicking every couple of minutes, a ~1020 run would be optimal for me now.