Using Haskell for sizable real-time systems: how (if?)?

I've been curious to understand if it is possible to apply the power of Haskell to embedded realtime world, and in googling have found the Atom package. I'd assume that in the complex case the code might have all the classical C bugs - crashes, memory corruptions, etc, which would then need to be traced to the original Haskell code that caused them. So, this is the first part of the question: "If you had the experience with Atom, how did you deal with the task of debugging the low-level bugs in compiled C code and fixing them in Haskell original code ?"

I searched for some more examples for Atom, this blog post mentions the resulting C code 22KLOC (and obviously no code:), the included example is a toy. This and this references have a bit more practical code, but this is where this ends. And the reason I put "sizable" in the subject is, I'm most interested if you might share your experiences of working with the generated C code in the range of 300KLOC+.

As I am a Haskell newbie, obviously there may be other ways that I did not find due to my unknown unknowns, so any other pointers for self-education in this area would be greatly appreciated - and this is the second part of the question - "what would be some other practical methods (if) of doing real-time development in Haskell?". If the multicore is also in the picture, that's an extra plus :-)

(About usage of Haskell itself for this purpose: from what I read in this blog post, the garbage collection and laziness in Haskell makes it rather nondeterministic scheduling-wise, but maybe in two years something has changed. Real world Haskell programming question on SO was the closest that I could find to this topic)

Note: "real-time" above is would be closer to "hard realtime" - I'm curious if it is possible to ensure that the pause time when the main task is not executing is under 0.5ms.

At Galois we use Haskell for two things:

• Soft real time (OS device layers, networking), where 1-5 ms response times are plausible. GHC generates fast code, and has plenty of support for tuning the garbage collector and scheduler to get the right timings.
• for true real time systems EDSLs are used to generate code for other languages that provide stronger timing guarantees. E.g. Cryptol, Atom and Copilot.

So be careful to distinguish the EDSL (Copilot or Atom) from the host language (Haskell).

Some examples of critical systems, and in some cases, real-time systems, either written or generated from Haskell, produced by Galois.

EDSLs

• Copilot: A Hard Real-Time Runtime Monitor -- a DSL for real-time avionics monitoring
• Equivalence and Safety Checking in Cryptol -- a DSL for cryptographic components of critical systems

Systems

• HaLVM -- a lightweight microkernel for embedded and mobile applications
• TSE -- a cross-domain (security level) network appliance

It will be a long time before there is a Haskell system that fits in small memory and can guarantee sub-millisecond pause times. The community of Haskell implementors just doesn't seem to be interested in this kind of target.

There is healthy interest in using Haskell or something Haskell-like to compile down to something very efficient; for example, Bluespec compiles to hardware.

I don't think it will meet your needs, but if you're interested in functional programming and embedded systems you should learn about Erlang.

Andrew,

Yes, it can be tricky to debug problems through the generated code back to the original source. One thing Atom provides is a means to probe internal expressions, then leaves if up to the user how to handle these probes. For vehicle testing, we build a transmitter (in Atom) and stream the probes out over a CAN bus. We can then capture this data, formated it, then view it with tools like GTKWave, either in post-processing or realtime. For software simulation, probes are handled differently. Instead of getting probe data from a CAN protocol, hooks are made to the C code to lift the probe values directly. The probe values are then used in the unit testing framework (distributed with Atom) to determine if a test passes or fails and to calculate simulation coverage.

I don't think Haskell, or other Garbage Collected languages are very well-suited to hard-realtime systems, as GC's tend to amortize their runtimes into short pauses.

Writing in Atom is not exactly programming in Haskell, as Haskell here can be seen as purely a preprocessor for the actual program you are writing.

I think Haskell is an awesome preprocessor, and using DSEL's like Atom is probably a great way to create sizable hard-realtime systems, but I don't know if Atom fits the bill or not. If it doesn't, I'm pretty sure it is possible (and I encourage anyone who does!) to implement a DSEL that does.

Having a very strong pre-processor like Haskell for a low-level language opens up a huge window of opportunity to implement abstractions through code-generation that are much more clumsy when implemented as C code text generators.